Scaling a Landscape Architecture Business: The Power of Peer Groups & Incredible Customer Service

Audio Transcription

Mark Lamberth:
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Contractor Grow Show. My name is Mark. I’m your host, and today I have the joy of interviewing Hans Frees at Outdoor Escapes in Long Lakes Minnesota. Hans, thank you for being with us today.

Hans Frees:
Thanks, mark. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Mark Lamberth:
Yeah, so I’ve taken a look at your stuff and I get to talk to a lot of smart people on this podcast and something that has been great to see. I mean, we’ve looked all over done a lot of research. One thing that I just want to say is you guys get it. I love your offering. It’s exciting what you guys have got going on, the representation of your work. So maybe you could tell us a bit about the business.

Hans Frees:
Yeah, no, I appreciate the kind words. I mean, to be honest with you, what we’ve got online right now, we think it’s outdated, needs to be updated. So we’re in the process of doing that. But outdoor escapes started until 25 some years ago. I was like any kid growing up, looking for a job, needing some money. My father was a CPA, so he did fine, but there were no handouts in our household, so he had to earn, it kind of grew up mowing lawns, doing some small work around the yard, the neighborhood, family, friends, and student turn into customers. And over the years it developed into kind of a niche of more construction based. What I’ll say is taking two dimensional landscaping to more three-dimensional by adding in architectural elements as far as pools, porches, pool houses, outdoor kitchens. So today what outdoor escapes is 20 something years later is more of a outdoor builder. We’re a licensed general contractor in our markets, so technically we could pull permits to build homes, et cetera, but that’s not really our avenue. We have a lot of trade alliances with builders, remodelers we work with, and a lot of direct consumer relationships. But yeah, outdoor building is kind of our niche.

Mark Lamberth:
Okay, great. And I just wanted to read kind of the description of which you guys are up to. Outdoor scapes, landscape design, build firm, focusing on combining the trades to create exceptional outdoor spaces from a simple perennial garden to an elaborate backyard retreat. Outdoor scapes is committed to providing our clients with inspired design, respectful and dedicated craftsmanship, uncompromising service. You guys have got a lot of great reviews and on your website there’s a lot of beautiful work. In fact, I want to just quickly open up my screen here and show some of what you guys are up to. So if you happen to be seeing this on YouTube, this is the portfolio of outdoor escapes and you see just absolutely gorgeous work, beautiful photography, just high-end outdoor spaces that you guys create. So that is amazing to see. Contractors and landscape these days sort of struggle with finding, recruiting, hiring, and then especially retaining their team. There’s a real shortage of skilled folks and motivated people out in the marketplace. What are some tips that you have for finding and recruiting team members and then ultimately retaining them so you guys can create a really solid business?

Good Earth Landscaping also scaled their business in some unique community centered ways”
https://rokketscience.com/from-finance-to-landscaping/

Hans Frees:
That’s a great question as well, mark. We’ve continued to develop that. I think one of our key things is just focusing on what our employee and staff needs are. What are their visions and goals, both on a professional level, on a personal level, on an annual basis. We sit down with our employees and review and kind of try to lay out the next five years, where do they want to be personally and where do they want to be professionally and what are their opportunities and how can we help them get there. A lot of people look obviously at compensation, but to us a little bit more than just compensation, if there’s opportunities for growth, if there’s other developmental needs. Those are just a few of the things.

Mark Lamberth:
Sure, sure. Great. And then Hans, how have you guys grown the business? I mean, you’ve got a team between 20 and 35 people in a relatively small market, it sounds like. I mean, you guys have been around for a long time. You guys have done great work. Are there other ways that you’ve grown the business, you guys do marketing or any kind of special outreach?

Hans Frees:
I’m glad you asked. We’ve had most of our success is directly driven towards repeat and referral clients. We have gotten a little bit of workup of social media and some advertising in the past, but that’s an area we’re really looking to push and brand along with business expansion. Mark, I think currently our focus has been on the design build arena, but being able to offer some follow-up services, some enhancements, possibly maintenance services to our long-term ongoing clients, and is a great avenue for continued growth there. So we’re looking at the business over the next five to 10 years. We’re just starting, basically, we’re looking to really jump into some serious growth here in the next few years.

Mark Lamberth:
Interesting. Okay. And then I noticed that you guys have got just really high reviews with contracting. I mean, sometimes there’s disputes and things that come up and folks get hammered and whatnot, but you guys have got, I think you’re 4.9 stars on Google. Guys have got a lot of reviews over on. Angie, have you done anything to, I mean, do you have any kind of process to get reviews? I mean, are all these completely organic? And when I say a process, what I mean is just like after you guys do a job, do you reach out and say, Hey, if you the work, or would you give us an honest review of what happened over at your place? Do you have a process of building reviews or they just all completely just come in there organic?

Hans Frees:
Those a hundred percent are organic reviews. That is not something we’ve done a great job on trying to harvest reviews, trying to build up our Google, per se. Our focus mark’s really been taking care of clients. So I think you alluded to the contractors. I think the trades construction typically has kind of a bad wrap to be honest with you. And I think that more so the reason for that is a lot of people go in there trying to think they’re going to win somebody’s business. I need to give this person the best price. Well, what we’ve found is our clients aren’t looking for the best price. They are looking for the best value, and to them, that’s long beyond where the project stops. These are clients that can call us 30 days after six months, six years later if they’ve got a problem, an issue.

Hans Frees:
We oftentimes get phone calls or communication with our clients long after the project’s done, unrelated to anything we’ve done. Maybe they’re looking for another referral for some other service that we don’t offer that they know they can trust us for a ongoing referral. So our focus has really been not just trying to get the last check from a client that’s kind of out the window. How can we service our client if there’s little issues along the way, we just take care of ’em. If there’s warranty issues and you’re slightly out of that warranty term, we just take care of ’em. I mean, we had a customer just recently called us. We did his project 12 years ago, and it needed a little bit of maintenance and we just took care of it. It was a warranty deal. I mean, we, we don’t offer 12 year warranties, but great clients who are easy to work with and the team players will be team players as well. So that’s kind of like those reviews.

Mark Lamberth:
I love it. Very cool. And then one thing that traits folks kind of struggle with. I mean, they’re out in the field and when calls are coming into the office, oftentimes they’re not able to get those calls. So they have web forms that come in, emails that come in, and sometimes it takes a few days to get back to them. Maybe calls are coming in, they’re not answered right away. Do you guys have a process for handling that? I mean, is there someone in your team, on your team, in your office that it’s just right there, bam, is answering the phone and responding to people, or is that kind of a sticky point for you as well? I mean, how do you deal with that?

Hans Frees:
Yeah, so we definitely do have a process. Is it perfect? No, this is construction, right? There’s always things that pop up, but we’re very firm on believing in following through in processes and who does what and how can we get back to people. Technically, we’re a landscape design build firm, but we’re structured kind of like a residential home builder. And one of the reasons, I mean that is we’ve got an additional layer of project management in our company. Our clients start out by contacting typically our front desk reception woman, and she’s obviously there to greet them and answer return calls right away. And then they moved over to sales and development and we’ve got a 24 hour rule trying to get back to clients the same day if possible, if not, within 24 hours of that same day. And throughout the phases of the project. Once that’s turned from design development to actually the construction side, our client has a direct connection with the project manager running their project. So there’s weekly updates given, but if there are things that arise, we’ll get back to people as soon as possible. So there is always one direct connection depending on what phase of the project it is for our clients to be in touch with somebody.

Mark Lamberth:
Okay. How long did a typical project take for you guys to complete? I mean, these are serious hardscaping and elaborate projects. I mean, are these a week or two? Are these months sometimes?

Hans Frees:
Yeah, great question. That really gets into the planning side of what we do as well. I mean, even though we’re one of the last people to work on a residential home, being the landscape construction guys, oftentimes we’re some of the first people involved because of the city permits and regulations needed in our areas with home builders, remodeling projects, a lot of times the cities want to know what the completed project, including landscaping looks like. So we’re involved as early as prior to the construction, the foundation going in. That could be a year, sometimes two years ahead of time on the planning side. Then when we get into the construction side, we’re dealing with our kind of sweet spot for design build projects is we’re working on projects typically around six figures to a million dollars is kind of our typical project range, if you will. With those, you can get projects that go on for a couple weeks, couple months, on average. I would say three to six months is some of our larger projects.

Mark Lamberth:
Interesting. And then I saw that it looks like you have a couple of kids and do either grown. Yeah, grown out of the house already.

Hans Frees:
You got a great wife. Yeah, my wife’s an interior designer. We collaborate projects together there with my kids. I’ve got a daughter that’s a junior in college. She’s currently over in Rome, studying abroad, having the time of the life. Hard

Mark Lamberth:
To keep track of when they take off, huh?

Hans Frees:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. She’ll be home before we know it here soon. And then my son is currently, he’s 20. He stayed for a year and kind of myself, I was a college dropout. I went to half a year of school. College really wasn’t his thing. He’s geared like me, just more of a hands-on guy, real smart kid. He’s working with us right now and kind of see what comes next.

Mark Lamberth:
So sometimes folks when they have a, we talk with a contractor, they’ve got a big business, they’ve got a lot of people walking around. It’s easy to get completely focused on the business and to let other parts of life kind of languish. But I saw that you guys love to do some really fun stuff. Looks like you guys love to travel, do some boating, go to some concerts and things. How do you find that work-life balance of running a big team, having a serious company while also just having a great time with your wife and kids?

Hans Frees:
Yeah, that’s a great question. I laugh because I’m currently in Florida right now, and we just booked our boat for tomorrow, and we’re going to a concert on Saturday. Love it. It’s been a battle. I mean, my wife and I have been together about 27 years, and at that point when we started off in the business, it was working seven days a week, 12 hours a day, just doing what you had to feast or famine. The one thing that I’ve learned and she’s helped teach me is just delegate and stay in your lane, get out of other people’s way. I can truly say the team of people we have working for us is much smarter than myself. It’s in a tough thing for me is to try to do their job, try to get out of the, it’s amazing what happens when you give people that opportunity, give ’em that chance, that effort and things soar. I mean, we’ve really gone through some serious growth in the last five years based on that statement alone, and I think that over the last five years, I’ve finally found that kind of sweet spot where I can work a 40 hour work week. We all know I’m working more is always online, but

Hans Frees:
I leave the office typically around the same time our office staff does, because my family’s important as well, and we need to make that a priority. I’m also a DD business owner, so I’m always go, go, go, and I have to unwind. So believe me, the office likes it when I leave town as well, so there’s a chance to step up and take over.

Mark Lamberth:
That is awesome. And it sounds like part of your growth, I mean, you just kind of mentioned, but I love that idea sometimes I always want to be the smartest person in the room, but that’s not really the right strategy. It sounds like you have hired some really, really smart people, and the idea is hire really smart people and then get out of their way.

Hans Frees:
That seemed to work. I’m not an expert on it, but I can tell you what, it’s worked for me. I’ve been really trying to be a sponge as far as mentors and other clients we have that I’ve looked up to how they’ve become successful and what they’ve done. If it’s business, if it’s personal life, kind of that balance, and it’s a fine line. There’s some things in business my wife and I worked together on, and then obviously there’s our kids and our personal parenting side. So it is definitely a balance.

Mark Lamberth:
The last thing I’m kind of curious about here, Hans, is we’ve really tapped into the power of associations, peer groups like Mastermind, this kind of thing, folks that we’ve seen that the people that get together with some type of group, it can really help them bounce ideas off other people and things. I mean, are you a part of any kind of groups or associations? I mean, do you meet with any kind of mastermind folks or is there any of that in your world?

Hans Frees:
Yeah, mark, I’m glad you brought that up. That’s been an instrumental part of our growth over the last couple years. Prior to that, I’m just a business owner, a guy that knew how to do landscaping and wanted to grow it, but I don’t have anybody kind of holding me accountable or holding me in my lane or teaching me how to do things. A lot of times I was the first one to just jump into a situation and may be an issue, might be a client, maybe it’s permitting, building, whatever it may be, and I didn’t have any of those resources. So about a year and a half ago I joined the, coincidentally it’s called the Grow Group out of Ohio with McFarland Stanford, and that’s been a fantastic peer group relationship with tradesmen all over the country. So similar to eo, I’m sure you’ve heard of Entrepreneurs Organization. We get together, this is more specifically the green industry, where we’re open book, we’re full financials, what issues, what challenges, and I know that I’ve got multiple peer guys all over the country that I regularly do talk to, and we work through ideas or throw things out. It’s been fantastic along with our quarterly meetings. Matter of fact, after this Zoom, I’ve got a follow up with them in about an hour.

Mark Lamberth:
Amazing. So that’s the Grow Group is what that’s called.

Hans Frees:
The Grow Group? Yeah, out of Ohio. Marty Grunder, he’s also owner one of the businesses as well as McFarland Stanford out of the Dallas, Texas area. They run that group kind of hand in hand with that through that organization. Some of my peers have guided me to EOS, I’m sure you might’ve heard of that. We’re just newly onboarded with EOS, but that is continued to further shape and guide the direction and structure really of the business. I mean, I think everybody at every business, no matter what level you’re at, everybody wants to know a clear definition of what their role and responsibility is so they can execute and

Mark Lamberth:
Amazing. So that’s eo. Is that Vern Harness’s kind of group? Is that right?

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Hans Frees:
No, the last one was EOS. It’s more of an operating system, so it’d be like Traction. It’s entrepreneurial operating system traction. Exactly. It’s based off the book Traction and Rocket Fuel. So I’m not a big reader, mark, to be a hundred percent honest. Prior to reading Rocket Fuel Traction and a few of these, I think I read one book in my life, if you noticed, outdoor Escapes is spelled with an X paid grader. Tough for me. I’m not a great student. I’m just proof that if you’re dedicated, you got a good work ethic, put your head down, hire people that are smarter than you and push forward.

Mark Lamberth:
That is awesome. So guys, if you’re listening to this, the book Traction and an EO os, EO is an incredible organization and it is really about creating kind of an operating system for your business. And so there’s a book called Traction, and then there’s a lot of groups that meet and I mean it’s kind of a cultural, there’s a lot of these groups. We’ve actually had some folks come into our business from EOS and talk to us as well, or eo, I get them confused. I think there was originally kind of partners and they were to split off and one called it EOS one called it eo.

Hans Frees:
Yeah. EOS is directly hooked in with Traction. You’re correct. Right.

Mark Lamberth:
Okay. Well, fantastic. And so what I’m hearing from Hans here is that, I mean, to scale the business, it’s helpful to find folks that are at a higher level than you are in some cases, but to basically get involved in a group of peers that are holding each other accountable, they’re meeting regularly that are not competing in the same marketplace. They open up their books and talk about the real challenges that they’re having, and we’ve seen that ourself. I mean, we’re a part of a serious mastermind that is also involved in entrepreneurial organization and really looks at traction, and we’re starting to get into that ourselves. But it sounds like that’s been really helpful for you to systemize the business and to scale it.

Hans Frees:
It really has. I mean, prior to that, mark, we were kind of hitting a ceiling. I was trying to figure out everything, and to your point, I mean, I just learned that I was the problem. I had to get out of the way, get the right people on the bus and get moving. So that’s what I mean. Our growth has just begun. We’ve gone through exponential growth, we’re doing well, but we can really see the vision now and not just me see the vision. It’s sharing that vision all the way down to every person on our team of where we’re going.

Mark Lamberth:
How exciting. Well, fantastic. Hans, if folks want to get in touch, if they want to hire you for work, if they want to reach out, learn a little bit more about what you guys are doing, what’s the best place to reach out to you?

Hans Frees:
Yeah, reach out through us Instagram or a website, outdoor escapes.com. Insta, just outdoor escapes. You guys are smarter than I am. I don’t know those channel social groups as well, but yeah, Google, I’ve got a unique name. Google, Hans Free, you’ll find it.

Mark Lamberth:
Yeah, Hans Free. Fantastic. Well, Hans, thank you for being on the show today. This is super helpful. I’ve learned a lot. I’ve taken some notes here. We’re going to tap back into our, we’re going to go look really at a couple more peer groups that we want to join. We’ve been thinking about that, and I really love that that’s what you guys are doing to grow the business, and it sounds like the secret to your success has been just delivering world-class customer service, not nickel and dimming people. If they come back later on down the road and they need, it’s been 12 years since you did work for them, maybe go over this, knock that out. Just take care of it and take care of your customers really, really well, and everything else will kind of work itself out.

Hans Frees:
That is correct, mark. You got it.

Mark Lamberth:
Fantastic. Okay, Hans, well, thank you for being on today and we’d love to catch up again here down the road.

Hans Frees:
Hey, thanks for your time, mark. Really appreciate being on the show. Have a great day.

Don’t forget to take a look at some of our other episodes on the Contractor Grow Show. We’ve got tons of Pro guests that have a lot to share about Leadership, Biz growth, Team Retention and more.