How Luxury Homebuilder in Chicago builds $4M homes while Navigating Historic Codes

Audio Transcript

Mark Lamberth
Okay. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Contractor Grow Show. Today I have Andy Boyer at Middle Fork Luxury. Andy, thank you so much for being here.
If you want to work with us at Rokket Science, you can find out more about our process on our website.

Andy Bowyer:
Absolutely. Thanks for inviting me.

Mark Lamberth
Fantastic. And Andy is a luxury home builder and restoration of builder in Chicago and some of the historic neighborhoods. Taking a look at photos, just a lot of just absolutely gorgeous work. Andy, maybe you could tell us a little bit about the business, the history, and kind of what you guys are up to these days.

Andy Bowyer:
Sure. So I have a educational and work background in both architecture and business. I went to University of Cincinnati to the design, architecture, art and planning college and then also have business degrees. And when I moved to Chicago, I worked in architectural firms and then spent about 15 years in the consulting industry. So I had always wanted to combine those. And in 2008, which a lot of people think was a very dark time in our industry, which it was, but it was for me a very good time to jump in and start with very little start small, start with doing spec homes and combining all of that. So my initial goal was to build a spec house and then build another one and build another one. And I had done a lot of analytics on the MLS and found that a couple of things. One that in my target markets property, there were still transactions, but primarily in the luxury market.

Andy Bowyer:
And that kind of makes sense if you think about what was going on in the banking industry and everything. At that point, these were typically all cash buyers who weren’t really affected by the market other than long-term prospects and how that might impact their own portfolio. But they still wanted new houses. And the second thing that I had found is that a lot of the developers in Chicago had gone out of business because of the kind of formulas they were using in their businesses. And then as a subprime issue kind of caused their house of cards to fall down. So there was demand and no supply. When I started, I wasn’t targeting luxury home necessarily. I was just targeting building a home. And all that analysis made me realize that it was luxury was where I should be because of those were the buyers. And then the third thing that I found at that point was that the subprime had left or created an opportunity to be able to acquire pieces of property at a very discounted rate so that once I improve those properties, it allowed me to sell to these new customers at a discounted rate so I could pass the acquisition savings on to the clients.

Andy Bowyer:
So that benefited as well. In hindsight, I wish I’d had a lot more money at that time to be able to buy a lot more properties and sit on it. But in Chicago, as you may or may not know, there’s not big tracks of land that are just sitting there vacant. So all of our work is either buying a piece of property that’s undervalued and tearing down what’s on it and rebuilding or doing a massive renovation and restoration to a house that could be from 1890 or around 1900 and then doing an addition as well to that.

Mark Lamberth
Okay, great. And I saw on a description of some of your stuff, middle Fork luxury development builds and renovates very special single family homes in Chicago’s most prestigious neighborhoods, each middle fork property, featureds innovation, artistry of the city’s most distinguished residential architects, landscapers and craftsmen. So it seems like one design element that has been key kind of incorporation of the business and what you guys have done is that, I mean in 1871, there was a huge fire in Chicago. Miss O’Leary’s cow kicked over a lantern, right? We all heard the story burned just an absolutely huge part. Took a look at the map. I mean it burned maybe all of downtown over by the lake. I mean just a massive part of Chicago. And so after that, the building codes were very strict about the properties that were still intact, the properties that were saved, that any type of architectural, any type of construction that happens, I mean it needs to leave that facade intact. And so you have to design around them. You have an architecture background. How has the fire and the resulting building codes shaped your work and the type of work that you guys do?

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Andy Bowyer:
Well, I think it’s a lot more challenging than if I was building in Ohio or Indiana where those kind of things didn’t exist. So for instance, we did a gut rehab in addition to what’s known as a workman’s cottage, which survived the fire. So it was from 1865 ish I guess. And one of the things that happened is they went, the historical society went through and landmark just huge swaths of property, of land areas that did survive to try to keep the history basically alive and ongoing. This house we were required, so that workman’s cottage was a style of home that was prevalent during that time period. And it was a masonry facade. It was a frame structure with masonry veneer and we were required to keep the front facade. And they had also determined that 27 feet on each side going back were original.

Andy Bowyer:
And then over the years there had been a number of additions and renovations to the property from that 27 foot point further back, the Historic Society certified, that that was all newer stuff, so that could be torn down, but the front facade and the first 27 feet had to remain. So as we scraped out everything inside of that U shape, basically we had to ensure the stability of that remaining masonry and brace it. And then we basically inserted a new house into that. We shoehorned it in, we dug the basement. We then built within that and then extended the house back to a length of about 85 feet, I think. So there was all the integration between that 27 foot point and the new stuff and the waterproofing and all that, and making sure that the floor levels all aligned, that it was all seamless. The good thing actually on this project was that all of the interiors had been renovated over the years, and so we weren’t required to keep anything, but if it’s a structure that the historical society believes is the interior is still intact from that time period, you can’t do anything to that on the inside either without their review and approval.

Andy Bowyer:
But they did things like, and this is just relatively recent, we obviously had to replace all the windows on the house. So we worked with a historical consultant who would research and find evidence of what was either at that property through photographs, either what was at that property when it was built or what was typical of those types of workman’s cottages at that time period. So for instance, this one was a two over one pane window, and so we were ultimately allowed to replace the windows with clad. That’s only a new thing. Five years before we did the project, we still would’ve had to have done it with wood, but it had to be a two over one and we had to present it to the board and they had to approve it. There was a concrete stoop at the front door, which was in horrible shape, pitted uneven, but they deemed that that was original to the house and we weren’t allowed to do anything to that either. We had to keep it, even though it was impractical, there were railings that were only like 28 inches high on either side of that concrete stoop so it doesn’t meet code. But we weren’t to touch those either. So there’s a lot of things that don’t really make sense, but that in an effort to try to keep some of the history of Chicago, you have to work within those parameters. I

Mark Lamberth
See. Amazing. And I saw that in a comment that you made. You said, I’ve intentionally stayed small over the years working on no more than three projects at any one time, which enables me to remain hands-on with every project. Also, home building at the scales, typically multi-year process and being involved with the day-to-day process means I can form positive longstanding relationships with our clients. These are serious, incredible projects. Listeners, you should take a look at Andy’s Facebook page. I mean, the work that you guys do is stunning mean. These are looking up from the top of a staircase down four stories all the way down through the middle of it with this gorgeous wood staircase that wraps around. I mean, just stunning and high-end, multimillion dollar serious projects that take a long time.

Mark Lamberth
So a lot of folks that we talk builders, they want to go out to the suburbs and buy two acres of land and build 30 houses on it, and there’s not the building codes, there’s not the historic society. Why does it work for you? I mean, you have an architecture background and I think you’re really interested in the craft of all this, and you’re a serious craftsman, but in your words, why does it work for you to deal with these historical society and the building codes and all of these very rigorous regulations that you guys are in every day? Why does that business model work for you?

Andy Bowyer:
Well, obviously because I like to be poor. Awesome. Yeah, that was obviously a joke. But those people who are able to go out and get the two acres and build 30 houses is a much more successful financially. I think it’s a much more successful model. And I also think that another thing that a lot of builders and developers, I did development from 2008 to 2016, and then I started working exclusively with clients. So I started doing custom builds in 2016. But a lot of developers will also do the exact same trim package in all of their houses or other details are consistent between houses. And that also creates efficiencies which lead to bigger margins because their carpenters can go in and they know exactly what they’re doing. They’ve done it before they can put it together. We’ve never done that. I mean,

Speaker 3:
You still with me, Andy? I don’t hear you here. I don’t see you right now. Can’t see you on the video. Let’s see,

Mark Lamberth
Let’s see. Andy, I think I lost you here on the camera and actually on the audio as well. I’m going to move you from the stream here. Why don’t you just click on the link again and we’ll try to boot this back up if you can still hear me.

Andy Bowyer:
But for me, like I said, it’s kind of a way, I guess to feed my soul for the hobby of architecture, which what we also speak to our clients is that we are trying to create bespoke homes that respond to their family and how they live and how they want to live and entertain. And it looks like we’re glitching. Is that okay? Can you still hear me?

Speaker 3:
Yeah, I can still hear you. Can you still hear me, Andy?

Andy Bowyer:
Let’s see. Well, on the off chance that you can still hear me, we try to integrate the home into the context of that particular block or that neighborhood.

Mark Lamberth
Okay. Yeah. Can you still hear me, Andy?

Andy Bowyer:
So the materials on the facade, whether they’re brick or limestone or brick and stone,

Mark Lamberth
Maybe you could tell me a little bit about the process when somebody contacts you for working with them. I mean this be, it sounds like a multi-year project in many cases to design the project and to build it. Is that correct? I mean, are you literally building houses sometimes for multiple years to get these projects finished?

Andy Bowyer:
Well, so we’re talking about on average, we’re on typically lots in Chicago or 25 by 1 25, and it may be a combination of lots. So a client might have two or three of those lots put together. But we typically say that it is going to take about nine months to get to a building permit. So to develop the drawings and get to a building permit where we can start to build. Now, we might bifurcate that process so that we have a building permit for the shell, and then interiors is on a different track, so that as we’re starting to pour foundations and or excavate or even demo, we could put that on its own track so we can get the building down that’s currently there.

Andy Bowyer:
So we will look at it in different ways to try to be able to get work started as soon as possible and then permit different things as we go through. But it’s about nine months to get a full building permit at the earliest. And if you’re dealing with a historic building or one that’s, so we have a thing where there are codes specific to buildings. So you can propose a design that’s all by, right. And those go faster than if you’re asking for relief. So you have to have 20% of the width of the property committed to side yards so that firemen can get front to back

Andy Bowyer:
When a cow kicks over another lantern. You can reduce those though, but you have to go in front of alderman and often community groups and then in front of the zoning board of appeals to be able to say, instead of having five feet total on the lot committed to side yards, I want to have three feet on one side and one foot on the other side or whatever. There has to be precedent on the street to allow you to be able to argue that case. So that can all add to it. And then the construction can easily take 18 months depending on the complexity of it. I mean, everything is arriving as you need it. There’s no storage for steel or I mean all that product comes the day or the day before we need it. And if it’s steel, we’re working with closing streets to be able to bring in cranes to get stuff lifted up.

Andy Bowyer:
If it’s heavy equipment that’s going on the roof, we’re bringing in cranes to get it lifted up. And so the scheduling of all that stuff is really important and impactful to the schedule. But that’s a big challenge I think for a lot of people. They think, oh, I want to build a house. But then when they realize that it can be 24 months from start to finish, typically that’s the minimum it is. It can be very discouraging to people. So that’s why I always say start as soon as you can. People who are like, well, we’re going to have a bunch of kids and we’re going to need it. Well start it now. You don’t have to necessarily even build it. You can keep the permit for a year and then you can reextend it if you need to. So there’s really no harm in early preparation.

Mark Lamberth
Okay, interesting. And how many folks do you have on the team right now? Probably fluctuates.

Andy Bowyer:
It does fluctuate. So my ideal scenario is that we work as a design build firm, meaning that we get involved with the client at the beginning and then work with the architect and the client to develop the program and the design and then evolve. So sort of a project management role there. And then we evolve into a construction management general contractor role once construction starts. So right now I have one person, a pretty senior project manager that helps me out. I have in the past had laborers. I had an in-house architect at one point. I’ve had a specifications person. What seems to work the best right now is that it’s just me and this project manager and everything else is subcontracted. So if anybody’s looking to be a laborer, I would love to know that because that’s really probably the one piece that makes it difficult because as everybody who listens to this probably feels the same pain putting up protection or the Friday broom sweep of the house, those become very challenging if you don’t have people that you can just have that as their regular schedule. You’ve got to figure out who’s going to do and how are they going to do it and how you get it as part of their contract. So that would be helpful to have. But right now it’s just my project manager and I.

Mark Lamberth
Okay, interesting. So you’re site, I mean, are you onsite every day at the projects and they’re managing everything, keeping it going?

Andy Bowyer:
Yeah. I mean there are periods of time. As a matter of fact, that’s why I’m in my car right now. I just left a project where they’ve been doing the floors for the last week and a half. So I was there at the beginning and then I wasn’t there for four or five days, and now they’re finished and the painters are starting. So I was there again, and I will, on that particular project, we’ll be there sporadically to respond to any paint questions, but I wouldn’t be there every day watching the painters. But at another project where we’re doing trim carpentry right now and starting to install cabinetry, we’ll be there either my project manager and I’ll be there every day to respond to questions and issues. We’re also installing tile there, and so the tile setter has different questions about orientation and material and that sort of thing. So we’re on site during those periods of time.

Mark Lamberth
Gotcha. Okay. And then it looks like your philosophy is to not have huge growth. I mean, you talked about that you only have a few projects going on at a time. You like to establish long-term relationships with the different folks you work with and also with homeowners themselves. I get that sense that the growth isn’t necessarily a huge component for you. Could you unpack that a little bit? I mean, could you tell us a little bit more about what your philosophy on that is? I mean, a lot of companies, they just want grow at all costs. I can see that you’ve really kind of hit your sweet spot there and you like where things are at right now. Why not grow 30% a year on into the future?

Andy Bowyer:
I mean, I’d be lying if I didn’t say there’s a part of me that wishes that I had built Middle Fork into a 25 million a year or 50 million a year company, but I also know that, so are you familiar with NAHB builder 20 clubs

Mark Lamberth
With NAHB? Not the Builder 20 clubs though.

Andy Bowyer:
Okay. So within NAHB, there are these clubs called Builder 20, and that at a high level, they are clubs that are made up of similar builders in non geographically competitive markets. So I’m in a Builder 20 club, been in it for seven or eight years now, and there are builders in Oklahoma. There’s a builder in Montana. So we’re all over the country. So we’re able to come together and actually talk about financial issues or concerns or marketing successes or failures. So it’s almost like an advisory board because you’re able to talk about what works and what doesn’t work, and if you have an issue on a project that you don’t know how to address that you’ve never seen before, you’ve got this group of other people. So my group, they build it the higher end of their market. That doesn’t mean that in Oklahoma that it’s going to be a $5 million house.

Andy Bowyer:
And it would even vary between a project in Oklahoma might be 800,000. And the same project in Fort Collins, Colorado might be 1.5 or 2 million, and then that project in Chicago could be 4 million. So it’s the same project, but we’re all at the top of our market as far as the size and the types of projects we’re building. And we’re all single family construction builders. So some of those are very big builders. And it seems to me that the bigger you get like that, the less, the more administrative work you’re doing, right? You’re managing all the people, you’re managing the benefits, you’re managing, just all of the things that I used to work with Deloitte. I mean there were 3000 people in the Chicago office of Deloitte. I mean, there’s just a lot that has to go on when you’re managing all that. And I really prefer working with the clients and saying, this is probably not a nationwide thing, but in Chicago we have long narrow houses, and so there’s usually bedrooms on the second floor and bedrooms on the third floor. And so we talk about do you want your children’s bedroom? Do you want to take as the owner’s the entire floor, or do you want your bedroom and a couple of children on your floor? Or do you want the children all on one floor and you on one floor? And if that’s your option, do you want to be above the children or do you want to be below the children? And we’ll talk about different

Andy Bowyer:
Pros and cons of being above or being below the children’s floor. So I enjoy those kind of, because there’s no right answer. It’s relative

Andy Bowyer:
To every family how they want to live, and do they want to see toys or do they want their kids to have a playroom that you don’t see? You don’t want to see the toys. I’ve got four kids that were born within five years. I don’t like seeing all the junk, but some people don’t mind that. They’re like, I don’t care. That’s our life. So I enjoy that. I enjoy being very involved in the finished selections and coordinations. It kind of lets me pull some of my creativity and stuff like that. So I guess I’m just nervous about or hesitant about getting that big. And my time is pulled away from being able to do that stuff. And if I stay at three projects a year, I’m still able to do that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3:
I see.

Andy Bowyer:
Fantastic. I think also, and listen, I would love to learn this from your viewers. I don’t know how in my previous careers I’ve always really understood and been able to forecast and to have backlog and to have five-year plans and 10 year plans still after 16 years, don’t really know how to do that in our industry because when somebody wants to build a new home, it’s pretty much I need to build a new home. They talk to a realtor, they get a piece of land, and then boom, the process is going. But there aren’t a lot of people who are like, well, in two years I’m going to start this process, or in a year I’m going to start this process

Speaker 4:
Where

Here’s another landscaper doing beautiful work on people’s homes in Colorado.

Andy Bowyer:
There aren’t a lot of clients who would say, Hey, I want you to build this home. And I would say, okay, but I’m really busy right now. I can start it in a year. Not a lot of people that are going to say, okay, I’ll wait for you.

Speaker 4:
So

Andy Bowyer:
It’s getting that backlog and then being able to build to say, okay, well now I need to hire three more people in order and I’ll be able to keep them busy the next year. So it’s not just my time and my income and career that I have to worry about. It’s also then all these other people that are working for me, and if I hire ’em, I want to keep ’em employed. And so it’s just a lot of responsibility.

Mark Lamberth
Sure. Interesting. And I mean, most of your projects come from word of mouth. I mean referrals.

Andy Bowyer:
Referrals. Mostly referrals from realtors that know me or know my work. And then they have a client and then they put us together basically. So when I did spec houses, I worked with a real estate agent who had a very good high-end network of realtors. And prior to putting the spec house on the market, we would stage it and then have brokers open and we would combine it with charitable contribution to a charity of some they ranged and which charities we used. But for every broker that would come by, we would donate 50 bucks, a hundred bucks, whatever it was to that charity. And we ended up typically on average, we would get about a hundred brokers that would attend each of these broker opens. And so for my realtor, it was great because it allowed these people to come through and see this house and think about clients they were working with and would it work for them, would it not work for them? For me, it was great because I had all these realtors who were starting to see my work and the level of detail we went to, the quality of the work, all the thought that went into it, and they would see that usually one of those a year from Middle Fork, sometimes two. So that kind of created the brand or reinforced the brand so that realtors would be like, oh, you should work with Middlefork.

Mark Lamberth
I see. I noticed that you guys do some really exquisite photography, which is great because the work that you guys do is exceptional. I mean, you have professional photography go out and or videographer go out and document you guys’ work after it’s complete. Is that how that happens?

Andy Bowyer:
Yes, typically we do. It’s harder on where you’re, right now we’re doing a very large project, but it’s all renovations to an existing home, and so it’s kind of hard. I haven’t figured out how we’ll photograph that or even if we will photograph it because it’s hard to tell the story of, oh, we did that roof deck

Andy Bowyer:
That you see in the picture, but we didn’t do the house and we didn’t build the garage that the roof deck is on. But when we do a brand new, a complete build, we’ll stage it and then we’ll bring in a professional photographer to shoot it. I see. And typically the interior designer or the architect one is there during that shoot helping really, it’s not just photographing it, but it’s having that eye that looks through the camera to get the shot. That’s going to be, for lack of a better phrase, the money shot of looking up that staircase or looking down that staircase or the way you look through the kitchen. It’s not just photographing the kitchen, but it’s the specific angle that you get of the kitchen.

Mark Lamberth
That’s interesting. And do you direct that kind of photography? I mean, do you look, you’re intimate with the project and you have an eye for that of that angle? For instance, in the kitchen? I mean, do you direct your photo photography and videographers, listen, I want you to come over and get it just like this. I mean,

Andy Bowyer:
I will say though that if my architect or interior designer has a passion for it, I will let them do it because you’re only probably going to get about eight to 10 photographs a day in a eight hour day. And to me, it’s kind of like watching paint. So I don’t mind if I’m not there as long as I know there’s a creative person there who really wants to be there and look at through the camera at every shot. And so they don’t mind the one hour it takes to set it up and adjust the lights. And that’s not something I get very impatient with that kind of stuff, but I will do it if there’s no one else around.

Mark Lamberth
Got it. Okay. Yeah, go ahead.

Andy Bowyer:
No, go ahead. I just wanted to say, I also want to mention that the website, if you’re going to my website, that is an old website from 2016, I had a beautiful new website and GoDaddy somehow lost it. So we are in the process of rebuilding the middlefork website. So there are projects on the website that you’re looking at that talk about when it’ll be completed and it’s been completed and sold. So there’s a lot of photography. You’ll find more of our photography current either on our house page or on the Facebook page. But don’t judge me by my middle fork luxury.com website because I know that’s horrible.

Mark Lamberth
Okay. Do you have a release date on the new site? When’s that going to be up? Do you know?

Andy Bowyer:
I don’t have that yet. Okay. I’m hoping first quarter of 25, but I don’t have that confirmed.

Mark Lamberth
Sure. I noticed you guys have got a lot of followers on Facebook, over 2000 followers on your Middle Fork luxury Facebook page. How did you guys build too much kind of followership there? It’s just from organic or did, was there some time of a lot of extra growth there on the Facebook page?

Andy Bowyer:
No, it’s all organic. I never hired any companies on Facebook or Instagram to get followers, and that’s interesting that I wouldn’t think 2000 followers is that much, but I appreciate you saying or inferring that it is. But no, it’s just all organic of clients or clients who have told people, or if somebody sees something on Instagram and then they go and they follow it, we get a lot of comments like that on how’s. And then I think people from How’s go and find you on Instagram and we’ll get pictures that people are commenting or we’ll get feedback from Hals that this is a photo that’s been viewed more than any other photo this week or whatever. So I think it just happens like that.

Mark Lamberth
Okay. Well, to me it says all the right things. And I mean 2000 followers on your business Facebook page actually is a lot. I mean, we see a lot of pages that have got four followers or eight or 10, and it just tells me that when you’ve grown a Facebook page like that organically, it just tells me that there’s a lot of folks that are really interested in what you guys are doing and that’s where they found you, it sounds like House and some of the other places they found you guys are really active on Facebook and the Facebook page there has got updated photos as of the last few days or today. So I think staying active on that is also very helpful for building that. But it’s cool. I think a lot of people are going over and it sounds like that’s a place that people kind of engage with you guys and see more about your stuff. Yeah,

Andy Bowyer:
Yeah. Interestingly, I’ve just been in, and I don’t know that anything will ever come from this, but I’ve been in contact with a gentleman from Dubai who is in love with one of the projects here in Lincoln Park and is starting to build some townhouses in Dubai. And I guess from what he’s saying, townhouses are not that they don’t have a big presence in Dubai, and I don’t know what he means by that if he means houses that are connected to one another or if he means the long linear multi-floor, but he’s wanting to sort of collaborate on design elements that he viewed through all of the social media and narrowed it back to Chicago. There was a gentleman years ago in Germany that, and now has built a house that our team worked with him based on one of the projects here in Chicago. So it is kind of fun to see people who get that attached to something and want to take it to where they are.

Mark Lamberth
Amazing.

Mark Lamberth
Amazing. Well, fantastic. Well, Andy, this is super helpful. Andy Boyer over at Middle Fork Luxury Development in Chicago. If you’re thinking about doing a historic restoration in the Chicago area or building a new home, Andy’s a great person to get in touch with. You should take a look at his Facebook page and photos. You can see some just absolutely exquisite work. I mean, I love just high-end woodwork, high-end luxury homes, and I can just really feel the care that you put into it. So Andy, if folks want to get in touch with you, it sounds like the website’s going to get an update here in the next few months. Maybe that’s not the first place to look. Where are a couple of places to get in touch with you if people want to learn more about what you’re up to?

Andy Bowyer:
So Facebook or Instagram, it’s Middle Fork Luxury on both those platforms. We’re also on hows you can DM through any of those platforms. My email is a bowyer, A-B-O-W-Y-E r@middleforkluxury.com, and you can go to the website, I mean it has emails and phone numbers on there that are valid. I’m just saying it’s a very dated website, so just keep that in mind. But the information that’s on there as far as contact information is accurate.

Mark Lamberth
Okay, perfect. Okay, Andy, well thank you for opening up the story a little bit and telling our listeners here about what you guys are up to and how the business works. Interesting that you guys are steeped in the historic aspect of it and totally taking on the regulations and code department and dealing with them and really making, restoring these historic, classic prestigious neighborhoods in Chicago back to their just mint condition. It’s really neat to see that.

Andy Bowyer:
Yeah. Well that was one of the things was, I mentioned in an interview one time back in 2010 or 11, was that my goal is not to buy a piece of property and tear the house down at that point, and it meant something completely or it means something completely different now. But I was saying that my goal is to build sustainable architecture, meaning that it can sustain time, it can live through or survive the test of time. And I said, I’m not unrealistic to think that people won’t want to change the kitchen or gut the bathrooms or something in a period of time, but the bones of the building can often deserve to be saved, and you need a little bit of extra work to do that, but there’s no reason to tear these phenomenal old buildings like up on the North Shore, these David Adler building, and there’s some in the city as well, more apartments than homes.

Andy Bowyer:
But I interestingly, and this is next summer, so I guess this is a backlog, but a house that I built almost 10 years ago, we are going to be gutting the kitchen and gutting the primary bathroom and redoing those, but we’re not doing anything to the architecture that’s all remaining. They just want different finishes. Then she had selected stainless steel backsplash and they had just gotten married at that point, and now they have three kids. And I think kind of that gray metal, hard, shiny surface thing, that was her life then and now it’s more warm and cozy and family friendly and she wants to change it, and that’s great. So being able to do a home like we’ve done on Dearborn Street or in Old Town, the Workman’s Cottage, I love being able to save those homes and then enhancing them as they would’ve been used at that time. I think it’s a very rewarding aspect of my job.

Mark Lamberth
Fantastic. Great, guys. Well, if you want to get in touch with Andy Middle Fork Luxury on Facebook, and yeah, Andy, thank you so much for being on the show today. It’s been great. I’ve learned a lot. I’ve taken some notes and really appreciate you being here.

Andy Bowyer:
Absolutely. Thanks for having me.